November 13

What if Northgate Mall was really Downtown North?

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17  comments

Earlier this month The Urbanist, noting the Northgate light rail station will likely transform the Northgate neighborhood, suggested this:

Northgate Mall (owned by Simons Property Group) has a particular opportunity to redevelop as a regional employment center and neighborhood core for the greater Northgate community.

The blog posted 10 Ways Northgate Mall Could Become ‘Downtown Northgate.’
Here are two we particularly like:

5. Build a public square.

Creating a civic space space like a large neighborhood park or square goes a long way to anchoring Northgate Mall as the neighborhood’s center.

7. Don’t forget the groceries.

Unlike some of the hotter real-estate markets in Seattle, the greater Northgate area has very few grocery shopping options within walking distance.

Read the whole thing here.

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Sara W

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  1. In the parking lot on the east side of the mall there used to be plantings surrounded by curbs at the end of the parking rows, adjacent to the north/south access road. They just paved them over. I often wondered if that was kosher.

    The west side of the mall has been developed pretty well, and parking area plantings and bioswales were incorporated at that time.

    What will become of the SE corner (now being used for a temporary park and ride while the light rail station is being built)? It used to be a tin shack Malmo garden center.

    We are going to see 12 story buildings at Northgate soon, perhaps even taller. Look at Bellevue in 1960 and look at it now. How tall is the hotel at Callendar’s going to be?

    I am disappointed that Total Wine has chosen not to have a shopping cart control system, BevMo has one and you don’t see their carts off premises. QFC and Walgreen’s would serve the community by installing a Cartronics system. Ditto TJ Maxx. I think Target has one?

  2. The Northgate Mall is a prime location (easy freeway access), but it is the most mismanaged shopping mall in the area. I can’t think of any significant improvements to the mall (other than the garage) in the past 40+ years. Compared to University Village, Alderwood Mall, Southcenter or Bellevue Square, it is a drab and unappealing place to shop. There is so little foot traffic in the mall that I’m surprised businesses can survive.

  3. Hey Vince, I was right there with you. Good to hear you are still around. Remember when they decided to put all the restaurants at the south end of the Mall. The north end “died” so they put some restaurants back. They also put all the restrooms at the south end. Another bad move and they are getting them back to the north end. They seem to only learn the hard way, and they are not always right. I think the moves I mentioned were again not with walkers in mind. I just don’t know what it will take for them to get it.

  4. I served on a city advisory committee for the Northgate Mall master plan and expansion around 2000. Simon Properties, the owner of the mall, fought every creative idea for pedestrian-friendly, mixed-use development. They fought storefronts on the street. They fought pedestrian improvements on the perimeter. They fought the public plaza that had been a feature of Maple Leaf/Northgate plans for decades. They see North Seattle as middle-market, car focused, and they want to maximize activity in the central mall corridor above all else. This is why we the redevelopment to date is half a lifestyle center on the west side of the mall (so the storefronts can face I-5) and a big parking garage. Thankfully they were persuaded to sell the Thornton Creek parcel, which has become a community asset.

  5. Terry:

    Maybe for apts, but Maple Leaf is filled with single family homes privately owned by citizens who will sell their homes at the current going prices at the time they sell. Not sure how that is not simple economics. More people interested in the area increases demand which will drive prices up. That is as simple as it gets. Look at the single family home prices in all major desirebale cities and tell me they haven’t continued to increase. Of course adjustments will happen aka the end of 07 through about 2013.

    I bought my house in Maple Leaf right before the market dropped. There were 5 other offers and we had to pay for a pre-inspection and use an escalator clause to be the winning offer. I am not saying I enjoyed that but it’s a reality and will happen again as the light rail moves in. If you don’t believe me then by all means I would love to offer you below market value for your house in the name of keeping it affordable.

  6. The owners of the Northgate Apt. have talked about building new apts for nearly 30 years. I’m not kidding as I went to some of the very early meetings. Even DPD laughs and says it will be unlikely anything happens with those apts in our lifetime. Those apts will never be more affordable than they are as they sit.
    Anyhow, thought this was about the Mall. There is plenty room there to make it more pedestrian friendly which would go a long way to make Northgate more liveable.

  7. Further clarification: Last sentence comprising the last ‘graph should read, “To say that Seattle will just get more expensive, as the city becomes filled with more people; and yet, nothing can be done, is the epitome of defeatism – as well as completely wrong and inaccurate.

  8. Clarification: first sentence of second paragraph should stipulate …”would be replaced with some equally affordable housing options, in addition to the planned “market rate” units, when it was sold by the current owners.”

  9. The belief that with growth comes higher housing prices is not “simple economics.” Rather, it is a concession to the belief that there is no way that anyone, any entity, can still the invisible hand of the market.

    It’s my understanding that John Fox and David Miller, president of the Maple Leaf Community Council, worked together to ensure that the Northgate Apartments, the two story apartments long an affordable housing option, just north of the Northgate Mall, would be replaced with some housing when it was sold by the current owners. (Source: comments David Miller made at a neighborhood public meeting, at which I didn’t take notes, and there wasn’t much detail. That housing complex still stands, about two years since those comments; maybe it will stay standing.)

    To say that the comments made about how Seattle will just get more and more expensive, as the city becomes ever more filled with people; and yet, nothing can be done, is the epitome of defeatism – and completely wrong, completely inaccurate.

  10. An Observer, #4:

    The local monies set aside for the I-5 pedestrian/bike overpass are now available for other pedestrian/bike improvements serving the transit center since the federal funds did not come through?

    May I suggest a pedestrian/bike path from Roosevelt through to 8th NE along the rockery where TCP6 joins the Park Apartments lawn?

    Not sure what SDOT is doing with their money, but ST is going to spend their money elsewhere. You may suggest it, but it’d be more productive if you shared your suggestion with ST and SDOT.

    Bob, #5:
    Great comment.

  11. It’s a case of “There goes the neighborhood”. We wouldn’t have our so-called affordable apartments, just the yuppie upscale apartments that were recently built.

  12. Good observations, MapleLeafBob, we agree with most of what you see.

    Generally we agree that we can’t stop growth (nor should we want to). It’s either going to happen planned or unplanned. With that said, we do believe that we can make all neighborhoods in Seattle affordable. Growth doesn’t have to result in higher prices and there are cities in the world that have demonstrated this. It is true that the way we’ve been managing growth has resulted in higher housing prices.

    We’d love to have more of these conversations to understand where everyone is coming from and start crafting solutions that work for everyone, existing and new residents, low income and high income Seattlites. If you’d like to get involved with crafting a solution, shoot us a message:

    info@theurbanist.org

    Thanks,
    Owen

  13. “Given that what the city really most needs, is the preservation of affordable housing”

    I just don’t see how that is going to be attainable. With growth comes the increase in prices. There is no way around it. I am not saying I agree with it, but it is the reality and I am not for the government pushing in measures to control housing prices. Having prices rise is what contributes to other areas that were previously neglected and not considered desirable gain attention and improvements. One area gets too expensive, people move to another and that areas typically improves (yes, I know the term improvement is subjective and in the eye of the beholder)

    I hate to say it myself, but Seattle has too much to offer to keep people out and prevent growth. We have strong industry, a strong job market, outstanding environmental features (water, mountains, eastern drier areas), etc.. With this increased demand comes increased prices. Simple economics!

    The light rail hub at Northgate with only increase this for Maple Leaf and Northgate. People are getting priced out of Queen Anne, Wallingford, Capital Hill, etc.. and its all moving our way. Plus, the access to freeways from Maple Leaf far exceeds areas like Ballard. To those that get upset, just remember, don’t sell your house. 10 – 15 years from now you will kick yourself.

  14. I agree that NE 105th should connect to a stairwell/ramp that leads to the mall parking lot.

    Make NE 105th one way between 5th and 8th, the opposite direction of NE 103rd, allowing circulation without two way traffic on a substandard road.

    Or close that stretch to cars, make it pedestrian and bike only.

    The local monies set aside for the I-5 pedestrian/bike overpass are now available for other pedestrian/bike improvements serving the transit center since the federal funds did not come through?

    May I suggest a pedestrian/bike path from Roosevelt through to 8th NE along the rockery where TCP6 joins the Park Apartments lawn?

    There is apparently an easement that serves TCP6 from 8th NE, anybody a title expert out there? Look at the plat maps, there is evidence of an easement in the configuration of the lots.

  15. Several months before he announced his campaign for mayor, Peter Steinbrueck put on a great presentation at Olympic View Congregational Church about density; he showed how density could actually destroy the quality of urban life, rather than make it better, if density was considered the be-all and end-all of urban architecture.

    The idea that the Northgate Mall needs a park or another public square seems silly and even provincial. As the saying goes, it is what it is.

    There’s a very effective, well designed and well used park in the Maple Leaf neighborhood which is not that far from Pinehurst or what might be called the DMZ , that’s formally known as the Northgate area. There’s also the Thorton Creek park, which has been recently renovated and is regularly maintained by volunteers; headed up by a man named Joseph (only have his first name). That’s seemingly plenty enough parks.

    The local QFC and Safeway provide plenty of grocery shopping opportunities; and yes, you can walk to both of them, getting plenty of exercise if you choose the QFC and have to go up-and-down the inclines of Roosevelt or 5th Avenue NE. Yours truly can attest to that.

    The rest of the proposed ideas seem torn from the blather of Roger Vasquez, the local, unapologetic flack for the major developers; who like the Urbanist, wants to make the city of Seattle their own personal Erector set.

    Given that what the city really most needs, is the preservation of affordable housing, as John Fox of the Housing Displacement Coalition has been saying for years, many of us just want to scream “Stop!” to those whose grand plans are completely and utterly destroying Seattle.

    Just ask the folks left at the Theodora what they think about boondoggles such as “Downtown Northgate.”

  16. I’m pretty sure none of the suggestions will ever come to be. Northgate Mall did have a grocery store, the QFC that is now on Roosevelt. Folks would maybe pick up a couple items when it was at the Mall but never any serious shopping. There is a bunch more residential now nearby so who knows how it would do today
    Also the Mall started as an open air venue. I just don’t see it going back to its roots.
    It would be wonderful to see it go “Up”
    We lost the battle long ago (sadly) to have stores fronting 5th.
    The better bet is the area immediately south currently be used by transit as far as a public square
    And lastly “downtown Northgate” No thanks

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